April 18, 2008
Request for Help (Updated With Answers to Comments)
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The more I hear about what the judge actually said, and the more I reflect on the way things went, the more I'm sure that the judge had a pre-determined outcome (or at least a threshold in her favor that was impossibly high) and merely gave excuses for his decision.
- It is undisputed that the Custody Evaluator testified the kids want to live with us.
- It is undisputed that the Custody Evaluator testified that it is a risk to the kids well-being to send them to my ex-wife. (risk meaning not certain, not risk meaning danger).
- It is undisputed that she let the Custody Evaluator believe she had been married just four months, when she actually had been married two years.
- It is undisputed that she lied to me and her own kids about the marriage.
- It is undisputed that she refused all attempts to seek mediation for our differences
- It is undisputed that she refused to let the kids stay with her for a while in 2006 (to give me a short break from parenting responsibilities).
- It is undisputed that she did not pay the court-order child support for more than 2 years.
- It is undisputed that when the court demanded she pay child support, she did so only at the unemployed level, despite being employed for more than 2 years.
- It is undisputed that she did not notify the Child Protection Agency that she had found employment (as required by law and the original parenting agreement)
Further, the judge ordered that we not "go negative", that he didn't want to hear all the things the other parent did wrong. We went positive, and just talked about our successes as parents.
She went negative, and the judge even had to counsel her to restrict herself to answering the question, rather than going off on complaints about my failures as a parent.
But he still rewarded her with custody of the kids. We still lost. We followed instructions, we proved there was no reason to change custody, and, in fact, there was the potential for harm to the kids if he did change custody.
He still changed custody.
And apparently gave her more rights than we ever had in the first place. (She refused to let the kids come back even 5 days before school started last summer, now she demands ---and gets!--- 3 weeks!!!)
His reasons:
1) If I was staying in Hawaii, he would have given us custody. But since I was moving to Texas (not my choice, only due to military orders), this "is a good time to let them get to know their mother better".
2) San Angelo, TX is in the news in relation to the polygamy cult. Since my wife has never lived on the US mainland, the social upheaval regarding the cult trial isn't a good situation to expect my wife to continue being a good stepmother.
...but I still get to have the kids come stay with me for 2+ months this coming summer, 5-6 weeks away.
Here's what I need:
Can someone put me in touch with a Men's Advocacy group? I need legal advice, and/or legal funding assistance. I think this could be a very good case to highlight the ridiculousness of Mother Bias in our courts.
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Nathan, I emailed the link to your post over to Dr. Helen in the hopes that maybe she could offer some suggestions, or even post a link to your story on her blog so maybe her readers could help. Dr. Helen is a major advocate of men's rights and frequently likes to expose the anti-male bias in society and court cases in particular. I could be wrong, but I may have seen a few of your comments over there as well. I wish I could help personally, but I have no idea where to start, even after googling "mens advocacy groups". Judging from your posts, you got completely and totally screwed by a biased judge that completely ignored the evidence in your favor. I'd like to see a movement forcing the legal system to give equal weight to the evidence and testimony of both parties in child custody cases. Is this an appealable decision? (Yes, I know that could get expensive). Let me know if you have any success in finding a group.
Wish I could help more. Will keep you and your situation in my prayers.
PS- what the HELL does the FLDS case have to do with the price of dog turds in India regarding your custody dispute? I wonder if the decision could get reversed on appeal based on a obviously biased judge making irrelevant arguments?
posted by
diamond dave on April 19, 2008 03:44 AM
Okay, stupid question: Is the kids' mom Polynesian? Was the judge?
posted by
Joan of Argghh! on April 19, 2008 10:12 AM
Nathan, I am sitting here, absolutely disgusted. Give the kids a chance to get to know her better? Well, shit. I'd like to get to know YOU better. Maybe the judge would grant you custody of ME.
This is an absolute outrage, and I believe that you are right in thinking there is a preset bias.
I know of no Men's Advocacy groups, but I am going to dig around like crazy to help you find some.
I am so sorry for you. This shouldn't have happened.
posted by
Mr Lady on April 19, 2008 05:03 PM
@Diamond Dave,
Thanks...
An appeal is useless. It would take two years to complete, and even if I won, the kids already belong to Washington State, so we'd just have to request the judge there to honor the overturn. But that would be after the kids were already with her for 2 years, so he'd be unlikely to send them back unless we demonstrate she's been bad for the kids...better to just do that directly in a lawsuit in Washington.
@Joan,
Mom is C hinese; judge is an old white guy.
@Mr Lady,
Your idea sounds great, but it would probably violate several slavery laws; besides, I'm moving to San Angelo, and there are already enough problems there with weird domestic situations.
posted by
Nathan on April 22, 2008 08:17 AM
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April 15, 2008
We lost.
The kids leave Friday.
We do get summer vacation visitation.
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WHAT?
posted by
Mr Lady on April 15, 2008 07:42 PM
That absoulutely sucks, Nathan.
But you already admitted you were fighting an uphill battle with this one.
I'm sorry.
posted by
Jeremy on April 15, 2008 08:55 PM
Birth-mother bias.
Hawaii is a liberal-leaning and top welfare state.
In retrospect, I never stood a chance.
posted by
Nathan on April 16, 2008 12:02 AM
CRAP.
This is the last thing I wanted to hear. Apparently my optimism that the law was starting to recognize father's rights more and more was seriously misplaced. I hate that they did this to you.
Ever thought about looking into some fathers' rights organizations? Maybe put more pressure to get the laws changed? Yeah, I know it's a longshot right now, but it could be a productive vent for whatever you're feeling right now.
This really sucks out loud, so sorry to hear this.
posted by
diamond dave on April 16, 2008 09:44 AM
I am so very, very sorry Nathan...
posted by
Dalin on April 16, 2008 10:50 AM
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July 18, 2005
When I take kids to the bathroom, they've gotten in the habit of standing back from the wastebasket and throwing their towel in, like a basketball.
If they make it in, they excitedly claim a "score".
The other day, we finished and came out from the bathroom, then went to eat. And my daughter told me: "I scored in the bathroom!"
Man, you cannot react to stuff like that.
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I wonder if you will be able to 'not react' if she says that at 17. hehe..
posted by
Gordon on July 18, 2005 02:22 AM
Two Points!
posted by
Karen on July 18, 2005 07:46 AM
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March 15, 2005
On the way home from work yesterday, my daughter started asking me something about her Little Mermaid doll...I think her question regarding Ariel's bikini top, but I wasn't sure because my focus was on driving.
But then my son tried to help, asking me:
"Daddy? What do you call the clothes that hold the...the... Mommy's things that...that we drunk from... when we were babies? What's that called?"
It was hard to answer him, I was chuckling so hard.
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posted by Nathan on
05:46 AM
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February 03, 2005
I think I forgot to announce:
My daughter is well and fully potty-trained.
When we took the 9-day vacation two weeks ago, she did awesome. In the car, she always told me she had to pee, and was able to hold it for 15-20 minutes until we got to a gas station or rest area. After arriving, the very next day, when I asked her if she needed to go pee-pee, she said, "I already did!" The next time I asked her, she said the same thing, and said, "I went poopy, too!" And that's the way it was the rest of the time. When she needed to go, she went and took care of it without prompting or help.
She did have one small poopy accident the night we got home. I think she just wasn't expecting it, and she stopped it before it got messy, told me immediately, and finished up after I changed her.
Absolutely no accidents since, and I don't need to remind her at all. She's transitioning to pre-school now at daycare.
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Congratulations! I actually ended up finding the process to be sort of bitter sweet at the end, but then I'm hanging on to fight the passage of time the best I can!
posted by
RP on February 3, 2005 09:06 AM
Congratulations! My daughter is so ready to be trained and I so don't want to get started. I want the end result, but not the trouble and accidents.
posted by
Jordana on February 3, 2005 11:20 AM
Just remember what Rae said: cut the training pants and sew on some velcro. It makes changing after an accident so much easier.
...or, I'm convinced it would have, if I hadn't been too unskilled to attempt it.
posted by
Nathan on February 3, 2005 02:21 PM
Congrats! I have to confess, I'm already looking forward to not having diapers to change, and we've got a loooooong way to go, especially if we have more. Oh well. Price you pay and all that. But I'm jazzed for you. :-)
posted by
Deb on February 3, 2005 05:18 PM
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posted by Nathan on
07:24 AM
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January 12, 2005
I'll Take "Things That Break Your Heart" for $500, Alex
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Last night my son wanted to play a game that we had recently purchased for him. Playing games during the week is sometimes problematic...my work hours, the weather, construction at the main gate, all combine to mean that we usually have less than three hours after arriving home before bedtime. And he eats slowly...
...so I explained to him that we would play after we finished eating (as a spur to encourage him to eat in a more timely fashion...I swear that boy can stretch one bowl of rice to nearly 90 minutes on a bad day!).
While eating, he asked why we couldn't play before dinner. I told him that when we get home, he's usually hungry to eat, and I have to make dinner. If we play a game, then that means I make dinner even later, and then he might end up eating all the way to bedtime, and wouldn't have any time to play with toys.
He responded, "I wonder why Mommy doesn't play a game with me." Which is a good question. I've tried to get her to, but, well, long-time readers of the blog know what's going on: I've mentioned on the blog before her reluctance to engage with the children over the last few months (I'm convinced: years rather than months...but can only guess based on the changes in mood/behavior of the kids before and after I got them into daycare, where they apparently get more attention than from their mom when they were at home all day). She was sitting nearby, on the internet but not eating with us (as usual), but didn't answer (as usual), so, as usual, I covered for her as best I could (admittedly not well) by saying, "She's busy."
He continued (without rancor or signs of negative judgment, mind you), "That's right. You are busy with work, making dinner, taking care of us, and sometimes busy with your things, and Mommy is busy with...(at this point he is visibly trying to think of something)...her things."
All I could say to that was, "Yep, Mommy has things she's gotta do."
To tell the truth, I don't know if she even heard the conversation. She's pretty intent on her conversations when online... We meet with the lawyer again Friday morning. 90 days after that I will be single and in Hawaii with the kids.
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Poor B. That's so sad. :(
posted by
Jo on January 12, 2005 08:11 AM
Hang in there, Nathan. I'm sorry things aren't working out, but you're a great daddy and you & the kids will weather this. Good for you, for taking action.
Let me know what I can do for you. In the meantime, I'll pray for you. (((hugs)))
posted by
IowaSoccerMom on January 12, 2005 08:35 AM
Well, if you ever want to babysit in Hawaii, let me know...[grin]
A few months ago, I might have felt bad with someone saying I'm a good dad. I still lost my temper too much and used too much of my old Army Sgt "Directive" style of leadership. But with God's help and lots of prayer, I am learning to remain patient, to adjust my words and tone and even the system of punishments and rewards according to the mood and needs of the kids.
It's difficult at times, but I think I'm through the worst of it. Seriously.
But more prayer is never a bad thing.
posted by
Nathan on January 12, 2005 08:40 AM
As a new father and a military member it kills me when I can't be home to spend time with my girls. My wife is with them, and she's doing a good job, but she gets to spend all day with them... I don't think she realizes how lucky she is. I feel like the worst father in the world if I go a minute past 5pm without seeing them. For me, anything past 5pm is their time, not mine.
Who knows what the future holds for my wife and I, but I do know that nothing in this world makes me happier then the time I get to spend with the little ones.
Good luck with all you're going through, and I hope it all works out in the end. Just remember that the kids remember the good times more than the bad, so make plenty of good times for them.
posted by
Tony on January 12, 2005 11:46 AM
Oh, honey, I'd be GLAD to come babysit in Hawaii... I'll bring my three along, and we'll head for the beach. I haven't seen the sun in so long I forgot what it feels like. : )
You're in my prayers, dear friend.
posted by
IowaSoccerMom on January 13, 2005 05:54 AM
That's just the saddest thing I can imagine.
posted by
McGehee on January 13, 2005 07:01 AM
Nathan, Taking the high road is always a good path as well as not burning bridges. (this comment is sponsored by AAA, apparently.) But I do mean it. I admire your attitude, and I do remember your family in prayer & will continue to.
posted by
Jane on January 14, 2005 10:11 PM
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posted by Nathan on
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Yippee-Ki-Yay! links with:
Heartbreaker
January 03, 2005
Since I recently claimed my daughter gets her adorable-ness from her father (i.e.: Me), I thought maybe I'd better actually be honest for once and provide the real story:
She gets it from her Mom, of course. This picture is the spitting image of her mother:
...eyes, eybrows, mouth, nose, chewing method: all nearly identical.
The picture is from about a year ago. She's starting to look a little less like Mom now...
Prominent Democrat politicians said this means President Bush should reach out across the aisle and not push his agenda in order to help unite the country.
Read More "Proof" »
Here's the next photo...doesn't look like a tomato to me:
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Is that a tomato?
posted by
Jo on January 3, 2005 01:14 PM
Okay, she's cute and all, but don't you think she's a little young to be referred to as a tomato?
Oh.
No, I think it's some sort of fruit common in China. A persimmon?
posted by
Nathan on January 3, 2005 01:20 PM
I thought it was a persimmon in the first picture.
I think her cheeks are like yours, Nate.
And, Jo-I've missed you!
P.S. Nate, I told R about your comment over at ZB's about the whole three-cord thing. He loved it.
posted by
Rae on January 3, 2005 08:53 PM
she looks EXACTLY like her mother?? Dude, you're sick! Okay, bad joke. Really really bad. She is adorable beyond belief. I am so glad you treasure them so. I am sure they are lucky to have you.
posted by
Jane on January 7, 2005 10:04 PM
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posted by Nathan on
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January 01, 2005
I'm planning on buying my son a digital camera this year. Not an expensive one, necessarily, but one with a number of options for manual adjustment. My plan is to let him start exploring how to take pictures, including artistc composition, focus, picking shots, and general use of computer for manipulation, including computer adjustment afterwards, arranging, storing, emailing, CD burning.
I think I'll give it to him for his 6th birthday, and then I can buy one for Noel on her 6th birthday, to give her something to look forward to.
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Noel is her name? That is such a lovely, feminine name.
posted by
Rae on January 1, 2005 02:39 PM
I'm struggling with the spelling of it. Everyone who just sees it without knowing her gender thinks it's Noel, rhyming with Joel, and thinks it's a boy's name. But the Christmas word is pronounced Noel, and in fact, she was named more than a year before she was even conceived as we were driving around looking at Christmas lights one evening. People seem to want it spelled with an extra 'le' to pronounce it that way without prompting.
I never wanted to give my kids a troublesome name. I guess she'll decide what she wants to do with it by the time she gets to high school...
posted by
Nathan on January 1, 2005 04:53 PM
Hmm, then I said it correctly.
I started going by my middle name when I was fifteen. It stuck. I still sign my first name and middle initial. I like Rae- it is unique, but my first name is so feminine sounding that I occasionally do miss hearing it.
Noel is lovely.
Remember, Nate, just like anything else, practice makes perfect. Besides, I am sure that the people at her daycare see you as the single, attentive daddy that you are...and smile. :D
posted by
Rae on January 1, 2005 08:25 PM
Oops, was thinking of the elastic/ponytail situation with that last line.
posted by
Rae on January 1, 2005 08:26 PM
Your meaning was clear to me.
I've talked to the daycare monitors, and I seem to have their sympathy, if not empathy.
They have standing orders to tell me if there's something I'm missing cuz I'm an ignorant daddy. The thing that seems to get them the most irritated is that I don't give them medicine for colds.
My thinking is that cold medicine doesn't help 'em get over it any quicker, and usually doesn't even do much for runny noses or coughing, so it's little more than a placebo for kids too young to understand what it's supposed to do. Extra water, extra sleep, and let it run its course, I believe.
The only medicine I ever give the kids is stuff that cures. Or if the coughing gets bad enough to keep them awake...but that hasn't happened yet.
posted by
Nathan on January 1, 2005 08:32 PM
We don't just gratuitously hand out the tasty stuff either. However, I do run a humidifer in the girls bedrooms and that works wonders. Also, if a cough is interupting sleep I will administer a little Triaminic, but other than that, nothing wrong with a tissue.
The Daycare workers just like the meds 'cause they make the children sleep real good.
posted by
Rae on January 1, 2005 08:52 PM
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posted by Nathan on
10:48 AM
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One of the more interesting things of being a virtual* single parent is trying to be a Mommy to my daughter.
Her hair was getting in her face/eyes, so at daycare they started putting her hair up. Well, I don't want anyone to have to do something for me, so I started using clips as much as I could. I wasn't very good at it. After about a week I went ahead and gave her a haircut. Of course, it wasn't very good...but it wasn't horrible, either.
But it left her hair a little too short to use clips/barrettes now.
Just for fun, I guess, the lady at daycare used the bands to make pigtails. I told her she looked like "Boo" from "Monsters, Inc.", so she started asking me to do it. So I tried. I've gotten better in the last three days, but it is really difficult to do it smoothly and evenly. Any suggestions?
I'm going to let her hair continue to grow, I think, to make some of these "pretty" things easier.
I almost dread trying to do braids... [grin]
Read More "Barrettes, Pigtails, and Such" »
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My wife won't let me near the barrets or scrunci's.
You're a brave man for the cutting. We've only snipped off a few hairs off of Georgia in her entire life!
posted by
Sharp as a Marble on January 1, 2005 02:01 PM
Yes. As the mom of four daughters, we have this down :D
1)Divide hair evenly with small, inexpensive black pocket comb, but only after throughly, patiently brushing hair.
2)Use only covered elastics(rubber bands can get stuck in hair and really hurt!) They cost a bit more, but are worth it.
3)Gently hold hair in your less dominate hand (left for me).
4)While holding hair, place thumb,index and middle finger into elastic, stretching it open.
5)Wrap fingers with the elastic on them around base of hair-grouping held in other in hand.
6)Now the hand with the elastic should be the only hand holding the hair.
7)With left hand,pull elastic over hair grouping.
8)Elastic should now be over the hair group.
9)Counter pull the hair against one side of the elastic with right hand (so should look like a figure eight with hair in one of the loops). .
10)With left hand, take slack in elastic and twist elastic over.
11)Repeat steps 4-10 until hair is held sufficiently tight.
A teeny tiny bit of pomade rubbed between hands and lightly applied to hair will smooth it down and give a better groomed style.
How was that, Nate?
posted by
Rae on January 1, 2005 03:00 PM
Rae,
Well, part of my problem is probably inexperienced, clumsy man-hands, but so far, the only way I've been able to avoid having too many stray strands and pulled hair on the 2nd warp is to actually twist and hold the hair...that kinda keeps it in a more consistent clump.
I can get 'em in there, but the shape of the hair being held by the elastic band (yeah, no rubber bands) isn't at all consistent...most of the time, they aren't even symmetrical (one ending up higher on the head than the other).
I may try at some point to put all the long back stuff in a ponytail at some point...but she likes the two Boo-like pigtails. I'll post a pic of 'em in the next few minutes.
SaaM,
I'm probably going to let it all grow out from here, now.
posted by
Nathan on January 1, 2005 04:58 PM
Wow...wait until you have to do braids!
One thing I tell dads about is the twist method...divide sections in two, and then just twist each section of hair until it makes a little twisty-bun on her head, and pin the end of it down with a snap clip style barrette. When you pop out the barrettes at the end of the day, you get some cute curly waves, too.
posted by
Jo on January 3, 2005 07:30 AM
Actually, I can kinda do braids already...not well, of course, but at least someone can look at it and go, "Hey, those are braids, aren't they?"
Your twist method sounds interesting, but I may need pictures. Right now, it sounds like a fairly decent toture method for Guantanamo Bay.
posted by
Nathan on January 3, 2005 07:51 AM
I think I am gonna have to post some suggested new books for the newly single dad, Nathan, over on my blog. You know, solicit some gift giving via Amazon or Barnes and Noble.
P.S. You know, the style these days is for hair to be slightly messy, so even if the do isn't perfect, it will still be a)stylish, and b) cute because everyone will know her daddy did her hair.
posted by
Rae on January 4, 2005 11:49 AM
Use Chip-Clips!
When it comes to pulling my daughter's hair up, I cheat. I use chip-clips. Yes, I only do it at home so people don't think I'm cruel, but they work extremely well and are easy to operate. Plus, they save me from having to clean the food out of their hair.
My Daughters love using them now at home and whenever they sit down to eat they ask for their chip-clips.
Go figure...
posted by
Tony on January 12, 2005 11:59 AM
I love the idea! I'll try it!
posted by
Nathan on January 12, 2005 12:42 PM
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posted by Nathan on
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December 31, 2004
I found a Power Rangers movie for $5.50 at Wal-Mart and got it for my son. I didn't want to spend more than that for what I anticipated would be a lousy movie.
Well, the kids have watched it at least once a day since Christmas Day. Three times in one day! I think I would have gotten my money's worth even if I had spent more, so we'll probably end up buying more of 'em. It may be lame, but at least it is a lame movie with decent martial arts, unlike Clifford, Caillou, or Jay Jay the Jet Plane.
But despite all the children's movies we own, this is the first one the kids have started quoting. Brady can quote a dozen lines verbatim (including his favorite, "Talk about a splitting headache!" including the accompanying arm gesture), and Noel remembers two of the Pink Power Ranger's lines ("You make me sick! sick! sick!" and "Gotta love it!").
Of course, I consider it really cute.
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posted by Nathan on
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December 17, 2004
My son recently got on this kick of worrying about who he can marry.
I'm not sure why he's so obsessed with this idea. For a while he was saying he was going to marry his sister, because she's younger than him. I think that was borne out of realization that all the kids in the cul-de-sac are older than him. I'm not sure why age is also such non-negotiable issue.
But in daycare, Wonder of Wonders! Several girls are younger than him! But one girl he likes has a birthday a few days before his. She's off the list.
I keep telling him that he really shouldn't worry about marrying yet at the age of 5...
So yesterday he comes out with, "Can I marry _______?"
I respond, "Well, aside from the fact that you are too young to worry about marrying, I see no reason why not."
"But her skin is darker than mine."
Daddy sensed an opportunity to slip in a subtle lesson. "What difference does that make? Mommy's skin is darker than Daddy's, right?"
"But her skin is really dark."
"Brady, the color of the skin is probably the least important part of marriage. What matters most is how you treat each other and your friendship." I'll get into how the love in a marriage is a reflection of God's love for us when he's a little older.
He didn't continue the discussion from there. We were driving home from work/daycare in the dark during the conversation, so I couldn't see his face to see how he was taking it, but he thinks for himself and is a pretty stubborn kid: if he thought I was wrong or misleading him, he wouldn't have let up.
Just doing my part for racial integration.
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posted by Nathan on
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My daugher, that is.
1. When we go into a burger establishment, she often asks for a Happyburger.
2. We got those water-based tattoos for them the other day. After I gave her one, she walked around saying, "I got a too-ta! I got a too-ta!"
...one of these days I'm going to get around to submitting these to the Carnival of the Rugrats.
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posted by Nathan on
09:35 AM
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November 30, 2004
I lied. De-link me if you feel you must.
She neglected to tell me that she pooped, and once I started changing her, it became obvious that she had peed beforehand.
Well, I'd been told that potty training for bowel movements is more difficult than urination, and one thing at a time, so I didn't let it bother me, and since she had done so well with peeing throughout the day, I didn't spank her.
In fact, unless she starts showing egregious lack of concern over peeing in her training pants, I don't think I'm going to use the negative again; that was just to get her attention and let her know there can be more serious consequences other than just "not getting a candy", and it seemed to work. She went again right before bed, so I'm hoping she'll wake up dry.
When she wakes up, she's too groggy and grumpy and unhappy to want to sit on her potty chair, although I try each day. So there are some times she has asylum. I'm working on expanding the range of success at this point.
Okay, this should do it for a few days. Hopefully, I'll have nothing to add until I can announce that she's fully off daipers. She has about 20 left, and I'm hoping I won't ever have to buy daipers ever again!
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I had challenges when i first started training my daughter, espcially being a single parent made it more difficult but i bought a book that was really good and i was able to train my daughter in a weekend. the book can be found at
http://www.potty-secrets.net/toilet-training.htm
posted by
Rich on December 10, 2004 04:46 AM
It's a difficult time, but it doesn't last forever.
posted by
Julie on January 27, 2005 07:23 PM
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Tonight she said she needed to "go make yellow water", and did so. No soaked clothes followed by a spat first, this time.
Progress!
With luck, this may be the last time I need to blog about this.
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posted by Nathan on
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My daughter peed in her training pants again. That got another spat on the bottom, which led to another 20-minute crying jag, which she stopped long enough to tell me she had to go potty. She sat there for about 10 minutes.
I asked her if she had gone potty, she said no...
I asked her if she was done, she said no...
I came back after 3 minutes, and she had a big smile and told me she went potty! I checked, and sure enough!
So more exuberant praise, a big hug, excited cries of "Good Job!", and I got down the candy bowl to let her choose a candy. She seemed to have forgotten the spank, and the joy of having done something right was what she seemed to retain from the deal.
I will probably continue the spat for a few days, until she tells me she has to go potty before getting spanked. Then we'll just go with the reward and big production, and slowly trail that off over the following week.
This is rather difficult, you know? I'd held out hope that her waiting so long to learn might make the process go more quickly once started, but that does not seem to be the case.
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My daughter is ready to be trained, but I am not looking forward to the work or the accidents.
posted by
Jordana on November 30, 2004 08:41 AM
Four words of humour for you.
"Potty Training the Elderly"
posted by
Sharp as a Marble on November 30, 2004 08:58 AM
I so don't know what to say about this...
posted by
zombyboy on November 30, 2004 09:47 AM
Your gag reflex is automatically suppressed by having children, I can tell you.
The thing is, there are so many difficult things about being a parent, I feel the need to reach out and talk to anyone else (like Rae, SaaM and Jordana and Dana) who has similar experiences for commiseration/tips/sympathy.
posted by
Nathan on November 30, 2004 09:56 AM
Not moi? Who has potty trained four girls?
I am seriously pouting now....
Leaving....
posted by
Rae on November 30, 2004 11:08 AM
Poor Rae. Someone should give her a hug.
I'm not disturbed, disgusted, or otherwise unhappy with the topic. It's just an interesting reminder of the things that I know absolutely nothing about. I hate it when that happens.
posted by
zombyboy on November 30, 2004 11:10 AM
Fixed, Rae.
...but I plead, well, one of the ordinals (not the 5th, because I'm not self-incriminating, I don't think).
I mentioned SaaM and Jordana because they commented on the thread...I threw Dana in because I've seen and held her babies, and she's posted about potty-training before.
It was just off the top of my head, and not meant to be an exhaustive list.
Okay, Margi, let me have it with both barrels...[grin]
Andy of WWR, Jeff Goldstein can feel free to lay some smack down, as well, if only because they are two blogging Dads I can think of who have posted about their kids.
posted by
Nathan on November 30, 2004 11:37 AM
Some aspects of parentng are less thrilling, but I love having kids.
posted by
Walter E. Wallis on November 30, 2004 02:19 PM
Ah, the things I have to look forward to. :-) Glad she's catching on...
posted by
Deb on November 30, 2004 08:28 PM
O.K. Nathan, forgiven :D
posted by
Rae on December 1, 2004 02:00 PM
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Potty Training Blogging
November 29, 2004
My 3 year 2 month-old daughter really doesn't seem to want to potty train. She doesn't seem to mind, or even notice having a wet daiper. Often I tell her
We've tried pull-ups. The ladies at daycare said training pants are so uncomfortable when wet she'd train herself. So we bought some, and I spent all weekend taking her to the potty every 30 minutes, and could never catch her having to pee. We'd sit there for 10 minutes, stand up...and 15 minutes later she'd be soaking.
The worst was when she pooped first, and since training pants don't absorb as much liquid, she made soup. That squirted out*. Yuck.
So Sunday, I bit the bullet and told her that I would spank her if she peed in her panties. She did, and got a swat, just enough to make it sting. She cried for 20 minutes (she's pretty sensitive), then later, either while she took a nap or as she was waking up, she soaked her pants again, so she got another swat. She cried again for 20 minutes. Then while she was sitting with me watching TV, she looked at me and said, "Daddy, I need to go potty."
I sat her on the toilet, and sure enough, she went. So I finally got to praise her excessively, and gave her some candy, and hugged her, and made a big deal out of it.
But she wouldn't sit on the toilet this morning, but then she's pretty grumpy when she's half-awake. I'll find out how she did at daycare when I pick her up. I truly hope we turned a corner on this...
So I've been considering starting a new group blog called Mr. Mom Blog, but I'm too lazy. I also worry because just like a man cannot serve two masters, bloggers can't really maintaint two blogs very easily, for the same reasons. So if someone starts a Mr. Mom Blog, I'll join....
Read More "Potty Training" »
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Use caution with the negative training. It can backfire causing children to shed wet diapers in hidden locations.
One technique is an all day affair (and what my wife and I will try fairly soon in hopes of training our 2y2m old before the new baby shows up). Our daughter loves juice. On that day, she'll get all the juice she wants, straight up, no watering down. We will have her drink constantly and take her potty every 15 minutes or so. Eventually, we'll catch her then praise her and reward her with M&M's. If you can do it several times, it should catch on in her head.
Granted, my daughter already loves to sit on the potty and really wants to wear big girl panties so I think we've got a head start. She also wants to wear a bra like mommy, but that'll have to wait.
posted by
Sharp as a Marble on November 29, 2004 05:49 PM
Sure, but when she's not in the mood for it, even just making her sit on the potty is a negative experience.
So far, we did it one day, and got our first success. It's not a big, angry experience, it's just one spat on the bottom to get her attention, because up till now she was always too busy playing to even notice she was soaking wet.
posted by
Nathan on November 29, 2004 06:21 PM
Panties and pottys. You guys are cracking me up. betcha never thought you'd be having this conversation! :-)
posted by
Patrick on November 29, 2004 10:26 PM
Are you kidding? I live for this!
...although I am beginning to think that "women's liberation"'s main success was freeing men to be more involved in their children's lives...
posted by
Nathan on November 30, 2004 06:05 AM
It is my life's complete goal to ensure that I am a major part of my children's lives and that means everything from diapers to discipline, from play time to pray time.
It's the most rewarding experience I've ever had in my life.
posted by
Sharp as a Marble on November 30, 2004 08:43 AM
I can't say I had deliberately intended being this involved. But I don't think I will ever regret it.
posted by
Nathan on November 30, 2004 08:46 AM
Nathan, buy the training pants, cut the sides and attach velcro tape. Then when an accident of the more disguting nature occurs, it is much easier to take clean up. The other thing to attempt to lessen your laundry is to buy plastic pants (Wal-M) that are for cloth diapers. They fit perfectly over training pants and keep the pants from getting completely soaked, but by using the cloth panties, she still feels the wetness. I can't believe that you have forgotten my thirteen years of experience....
***seriously leaving now and considering if I should come back.....***
posted by
Rae on November 30, 2004 11:13 AM
I feel your pain, Nathan! My oldest, a very intelligent girl, would not be trained for anything (candy, toys, Disneyland). After countless hours of attempts, bribery and tears (mine), I resigned myself to the fact that she was going to do it when SHE was good and ready, not me. My point is, let it go. A good parent is not always the one whose child reaches milestones on time, it is the one who recognizes his child's need to do things in her own time! Good luck! And if it helps...my boys all did it on their own by 2 1/2 years (using the "no pressure method").
posted by
Kadi Prescott on December 1, 2004 07:40 AM
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Your Daily Prescott links with:
Potty Training Blogging
November 16, 2004
So while standing in line for an hour, I spent a good amount of time talking with a veteran named Steven. Establishing a friendship, he invited me to sit with his family for dinner.
I really enjoyed talking with them (Steven, his wife, and daughter). They invited me to their church this weekend, and I'm thinking seriously about going.
But his daughter paid me an extremely nice complement at the end of the evening. From some of her other comments, I gathered that she works in child development, and has a great deal of knowledge on this issue. And as I was leaving, she told me that she thought I was extremely good with the children, that she had been trying not to stare at us the whole evening (an interesting way of phrasing it, but I took it to mean she didn't want to make it obvious that she was actively observing the way I treated the kids).
I hadn't noticed her attention, actually, and had not altered my behavior/parenting with the kids at all. It helps that they are good kids who want to do the right thing. It also helps that they love learning, so I can entertain them by explaining how something works, like neon lights or napkin dispensers and stuff. And I've learned that the best way to handle kids is to fully engage them. If you put them off, they just clamor for more attention, so you excuse yourself, give them all your attention, and they are satisfied for 10-15 minutes. I also mediated a few squabbles, patiently explaining again and again to Brady that it isn't good to worry about standing in front, that it is a bad sort of competition, and I guess she was even watching those interactions.
In any case, it was a nice bit of sorely-needed affirmation.
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That's a great thing to hear. It helps so much to get compliments like that now and then.
posted by
Jordana on November 16, 2004 03:33 PM
Awwww, Nathan-good for you. It is always nice to hear that someone else thinks you are a good parent. Especially someone who isn't thought "obligated" to show the love ;)
posted by
Rae on November 16, 2004 04:57 PM
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posted by Nathan on
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August 31, 2004
Okay, everyone must know by now that my kids are the cutest little critters on the planet. If not, raise your hand and I'll post more pictures.
In any case, my son, just about to turn 5, thinks he's figured out how to shorten words. The first one was when he was two, and noticed that "Daddy" shortened to "Dad", and "Mommy" shortened to "Mom", so "Baba" (Chinese for 'father') should shorten to "Bob", right?
His most recent attempt seems to have come from noticing that "poopoo" shortens to "poop", because he's always saying that he needs to go "peep".
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My son, who will be five in December, says "peep" too. :)
posted by
Jordana on September 1, 2004 09:39 AM
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August 09, 2004
Cute Kid Tricks (or, "My Kids Channel Abbot and Costello")
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My son is somewhat of a perfectionist, with a great attention to detail. My daughter is much more relaxed and unconcerned with precision. One way this manifests itself is in their speech. My 4-year-old son has always had much more accurate pronunciation, whereas sometimes it is difficult to figure out what the heck my 2-year-old daughter was trying to say.
For some reason, my son has taken it upon himself to improve his sister's pronunciation. So when we drive around town on errands, he gives her words to try and say, and drills her until her pronunciation improves, if not achieves perfection.
A few days ago they were in the middle of one session when my son started in on the names of colors, something my daughter really hasn't learned yet. "Red", "brown", and "black" were practiced without significant difficulty. But the trouble started with "White". Noel had no idea what he was talking about so kept re-interpreting what he said into something she could understand.
Brady: "Noel, say 'white'."
Noel: "Wipes."
Brady: "No, 'white'."
Noel: "Wipes."
Brady: "No, listen: 'White'."
Noel: "Ohhhhh!" (as if it were finally clear) "Wipes."
Brady: [sigh] "WhiTe."
Noel: "WiPES."
Brady: "Whiiiiiiiiii.......te."
Noel: "Ohhhhhhh! Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.........pes."
They kept it up for about 10 minutes, accompanied by veritable paroxysms of laughter from the adults up front...
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Georgia does the same thing (2 in a few weeks). She knows every letter of the alphabet and can pronouce every sound, but she garbles them up.
Milk is Dilk (but she can say "Moo")
Grapes are Bapes
Soap is Boap while Soup is Poop (S's are very difficult for kids to start a word with for some unknown reason).
Lots of fun!
posted by
Sharp as a Marble on August 9, 2004 12:50 PM
We took my 23 month old Godson to the ice cream parlour Saturday night. He got a "clown sundae", which means sundae with an ice cream cone "hat". My Godson seemed to confuse the cone-hat for a toy, and it eventually had to be set aside because it was making the mess ten times worse. After getting ice cream and strawberry syrup every place imagineable, we swing through the "candy store" portion (Incidentally, where you pay your bill)and Michael picked up a big roll of Smarties. As we all went to the car, I dropped the roll of Smarties and they subsequently rolled under a car. Michael retrieved them, looked at me, and said, "Bad Jolene!" and shook his head. Of course, he knew what was to come next. My Godson said, "Bad Jolene, Bad!"
We got in the car and as we drove, Godson said, "Joleeeene?"
"Yes?" I reply.
"Are you baaaaad?" he says. and all the way home it was "Are you baaaad?"
His parents picked him up as he came through the door. "Did you have fun?" says the mom. "Jolene took my ice cream cone off my ice cream. Jolene is BAAAAD."
"Bad Jo!" His parents say, shaking their heads and laughing in unison.
Good Lord.
*sigh*
posted by
Jo on August 9, 2004 12:57 PM
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